TOPIC:

RogerM wrote:

We use a role called "I cannot attend this meeting #1 - #5. It has worked effectively for us since FTH2 rolled out. because it is a role, the VP-Ed and the TMOD already receive the notification, and it shows in the role history reports.

Roger, it has been a effective workaround for a long time for a lack of proper attendance tracking. However, I believe the following is also true:

1. The 6th absentee cannot communicate via that method.
2. People must log in to communicate absence. I agree with Brad Smith that people do not want to log in much any more. (makes communicating a bit more challenging than it needs to be)
3. The VPE/Toastmaster does not see an overall "dashboard" of who will be attending a meeting and has no way to set attendance for those who RSVP'd verbally.
4. Does not make effective use of the agenda email, which I believe is a better mechanism for mobile.

So... you will still be able to use your method moving forward, but I believe what I am implementing will be more attractive to your club's members.

I am going to break stuff in the system that I believe needs to be broken to "make a better omelet"... I am doing the creative disruption thing.

I created something like that too, but I like what Steve is adding... I think that is even better, especially if it will be at the top of the website.

Yes, I think members should be able to see who is attending. Will the President and VP be able to answer the questions for individuals? We have some folks who do not always log in but respond by email.

kenmatos wrote:

Yes, I think members should be able to see who is attending. Will the President and VP be able to answer the questions for individuals? We have some folks who do not always log in but respond by email.

Then they will use the email response method. (read above)

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Look everyone... please keep your comments coming, However, at this point, I feel like I have enough input to get something working. It may not be perfect for everyone right away, but I feel it is important to make some forward progress, so I am not going to consider any additional input at this time for the *initial implementation*. However, I will consider for revisions after I have released something. Can't keep litigating these things forever.

I love the idea of meeting attendance as a general function. It will help the Toastmaster and TopicsMaster know how to complete any open parts of the meeting proper.

Attendance tracking for minutes is a separate item.

REALLY IMPORTANT is role confirmation.
We find with our noon meeting folks come to meetings but are not prepared for or unaware of their role so role confirmation would be high on my list. Hopefully the Toastmaster has reached out to key players. Regardless - CONFIRMATION would be wonderful.

THANK YOU for doing this update!!

SteveTheTechie wrote:

Something else that has occurred to me is that if a member has already responded that they will not be at a meeting, then they should not be allowed to be selected from the drop downs in the agenda editor form. Probably need to disable them in the drop downs.

Would the person setting roles for the agenda (e.g. VPE or Toastmaster) be able to override the member's attendance setting?

I can see a situation where someone originally says they aren't coming, then changes their mind (but can't get to a computer) and asks the Toastmaster or VPE to sign them up for a role. In this situation, unless then person setting the agenda can switch the member's attendance to "yes", then they won't be able to assign them.

Would a warning dialogue work better? e.g. something like "This member has indicated that they won't be attending. Are you sure you want to assign this role?"

JeffHagan wrote:

SteveTheTechie wrote:

Something else that has occurred to me is that if a member has already responded that they will not be at a meeting, then they should not be allowed to be selected from the drop downs in the agenda editor form. Probably need to disable them in the drop downs.

Would the person setting roles for the agenda (e.g. VPE or Toastmaster) be able to override the member's attendance setting?

I can see a situation where someone originally says they aren't coming, then changes their mind (but can't get to a computer) and asks the Toastmaster or VPE to sign them up for a role. In this situation, unless then person setting the agenda can switch the member's attendance to "yes", then they won't be able to assign them.

Would a warning dialogue work better? e.g. something like "This member has indicated that they won't be attending. Are you sure you want to assign this role?"

I do not see this as an issue since they can just switch to the attendance tab to mark the member as attending, which would address this fringe use scenario.

Thank you for this! I use "agenda items" for each member that I call "roll call - <person xx> will attend" that are not printed on agendas. But it is hard to maintain for each member as people enter/leave the club, and makes the agenda display quite long. Also, people don't use it well.
"Overriding" by Toastmaster / VP Ed / Webmaster: yes, please. I have two members who don't have Internet access, so they don't maintain their own attendance notification. Also, Jeff's comment is valid to permit 1) override, and 2) a warning message (don't think we need to prohibit the name in the dropdowns).
Attendance tracking: if history of attendance could be maintained, that would be valuable. Not an issue of minutes, it is an issue of Membership and Education.
View attendance at upcoming meeting: yes, I believe that members are interested in that. My members sometimes log in just to see my list of "roll calls."
Position: I like the position just above the agenda items, not in the meeting header.

I like the idea of adding an attendance feature, and I'd really like to see it as part of the meeting minutes. Perhaps the attendance record could pre-populate with the assigned roles, so that the secretary only needs to change out the re-assignments.

For the "Will you be attending?" feature, I would like to have the ability to disable it as webmaster. I can see it being a very useful tool for many clubs, but I can see that being abused in my club. Right now, you have at the bottom of the agenda "Notes - a good place to let people know you cant make a meeting." We stopped letting people do this because the TM would print the agenda the night before the meeting, and people would put a note in that they couldn't attend afterward. Sometimes just 10 minutes before the meeting.

We have very high attendance of our club's membership because of our very simple policy: If you can't make a meeting before the 3 meeting schedule goes out, contact the EVP for a schedule change. If the 3 meeting schedule has already been published, contact the TM for an agenda change. If you blow-off a meeting (or try using the note section of the agenda), you get a phone call.

By making it easy for members to conveniently cop-out of a meeting, it encourages lower attendance. When you have to scramble to fix the agenda in the first 5 minutes of the meeting, it also does not make the meetings fun.

Thanks to everyone who has continued to offer comments. Please note that development is already well underway in my spare time, and I consider the scope for the update to be locked. If I do not do that, then we will keep debating the scope ad nauseum, and nothing gets implemented. I do have a normal paying job (*not* IT) like everyone else, and I do this in my spare time, in addition to trying to have a life--please keep this in mind.

At some point, I have to take your input and combine it with my vision of the feature and my knowledge of the system implementation as much as I can, and get something done. Please give me a chance to get this done before you presume you will want something different.

This does not mean that I am ignoring additional suggested changes... however, I am likely going to put some of those off until a bit later.

Specifically:
1. Attendance report... will likely be delayed until I come back around to do more reports.
2. Hiding the Attendance question on the agenda page... No, I am not going to support that, at least not initially. What is more likely is a pre-meeting agenda "lock-down period" (e.g., no changes within x number of hours prior to meeting time), but *later*. Please try the new features instead of just dissing them right off the bat.
3. Integration w/ meeting minutes. We do not generate meeting minutes (every club does it differently), so no, I will not be doing that.
4. The overriding by VPE/Toastmaster, etc... you will use the Attendance tab w/ the master attendance record to set someone's attendance for them.

I skimmed through all the replies - some good ideas. But let's not get too elaborate. Define what is EXACTLY needed and now it might be used. (It can always be make more elaborate later, once it becomes used.)

The Meeting Notes field was originally planned for members self-reporting their absence (among other things) but most members don't use it in my club, or know how to use it. (I guess I better orient all members how to use FTH; or create a user guide explaining how to log in, how go sign-up for roles, how to alter Profile, ... - something most members don't know how to do or teach themselves by using it.)

I don't think member absences need to be printed on the agenda (unless needed for a Quorum to vote), but I'd like to see a field somewhere on the agenda page listing those members who self-reported they'd be absent) - a simple field similar to Meeting Notes (a list of names, preferably alphabetized).

If a member logged into self-report absence, and they had a role, could they be warned that they have a role and need to remove themselves, or would FTH simply remove them? (I'd also like a message sent to VPE if a member cancels their meeting role (as VPE I never got a report) - so that I know I have to find a replacement - and not wait until I happen to log into FTH next time.

I like the idea of shading names of members in drop list who declare absence in each meetings so they can't be accidentally picked by Agenda editor (usually VPE) as a replacement.

I like the idea of a separate report listing all members who self-report they will be absent.

Wishful thinking: Could a message be emailed to the VPE and/or meeting Toastmaster each time someone self-reports their absence? Those functionaries may check their emails more frequently than they log into FTH.

I do not need it on the printed agenda (wasted paper as commented in other responses). The capability to print a separate report for our club officers (VPM and VPE) to review would be good.

Maybe have signing up for a role turn the attendance on automatically? Not sure if that's possible but it would save a task if it is.

Nice idea, as tracking attendance is always something you get round to later for most. I'd like to see a long-range (3 to 6 month) report to show trends; while that's not an easy thing to show online, perhaps something showing attendance over time for a selectable member could be?
I'm thinking of a feature that is available to the Club Secretary, as well as the VPM/VPE; quite often, that person is involved in meeting attendance as well.
Also wondering whether the "Uncertain" status is needed, and I think it would be useful to be able to track the "failed to respond" group because it may indicate a lack of engagement. An early warning sign for their mentors, perhaps?

As the first piece of this has now been implemented, tested, and rolled-out, I am locking this thread, and requesting that you post any further comments on the new thread for the implemented functionality, located here:

support.toastmastersclubs.org/4-general-...e-reporting-tracking

Thanks!!!