TOPIC:

We are experiencing a number of issues when using our standard "members" email distribution address (members-7892(at)toastmastersclubs(dot)org )

1. Some of our existing, registered members cannot send emails to this address. (Well they can send emails - but the emails never arrive to the members on the list.) Examples of these members who cannot successfully send are skpal29(at)hotmail(dot)com and rayjerrems(at)people(dot)net(dot)au

2. Not all the members on the list receive the email when it is sent to the group address. e.g. When sending an email from my own, registered email address (andrew.b.gomes(at)gmail(dot)com) to members-7892(at)toastmastersclubs.org then it never gets delivered to skpal29(at)hotmail(dot)com.

I have asked the members who miss the emails to check their JUNK and SPAM folders but there is no sign of the missing emails.

Further - there is no bounce-back to say that the email was never delivered.

This issue appears to have started mid 2014.

Any assistance/advice/recommendations would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Andrew

Please in the future don't wait 6 months to tell us of an issue.

I see one email from you today and then went back to you and the rest of your members. you can see that the corresponding email host received and accepted the emails. Your member need to check their spam boxes.


Feb 1 06:07:51 toastmastersclubs sendmail[29884]: t1167poU029884: from=<This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>, size=14765, class=0, nrcpts=1, msgid=, proto=ESMTP, daemon=MTA, relay=mail-yh0-f46.google.com [209.85.213.46]
Feb 1 06:08:09 toastmastersclubs sendmail[29911]: t1167poU029884: to=<This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.> (8/0), delay=00:00:18, xdelay=00:00:11, mailer=prog, pri=45342, dsn=2.0.0, stat=Sent

Feb 1 06:08:04 toastmastersclubs sendmail[29953]: t11684Rr029950: to=<This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>, ctladdr=<This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.> (501/502), delay=00:00:00, xdelay=00:00:00, mailer=esmtp, pri=134864, relay=gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com. [74.125.29.27], dsn=2.0.0, stat=Sent (OK 1422770884 q67si20801310qgd.39 - gsmtp)

Feb 1 06:08:09 toastmastersclubs sendmail[30079]: t11687fQ030076: to=<This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>, ctladdr=<This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.> (501/502), delay=00:00:02, xdelay=00:00:02, mailer=esmtp, pri=134859, relay=mx2.hotmail.com. [65.55.37.72], dsn=2.0.0, stat=Sent ( <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.> Queued mail for delivery)

Feb 1 06:08:11 toastmastersclubs sendmail[29986]: t11685nb029983: to=<This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>, ctladdr=<This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.> (501/502), delay=00:00:06, xdelay=00:00:06, mailer=esmtp, pri=134864, relay=ipt-mailgate-01.m2core.com.au. [203.134.71.81], dsn=2.0.0, stat=Sent (ok: Message 30884006 accepted)

Thanks for your prompt response Brian...!

This has been a difficult problem for us to track down and isolate due to a whole lot of anecdotal information and lack of technical know-how from our members. I have only started concentrating on this problem over the weekend.

In your response - I notice that the email to skpal29(at)hotmail(dot)com is showing as Queued mail for delivery and not actually sent. This is the one email address that I can never successfully send to.

Also - please could you check the status of the email sent by rayjerrems(at)people(dot)net(dot)au sent 1 February 2015 at 16:49 Australian Eastern Time Zone (UTC+10:00) with the subject of "Meeting Summary" I have had confirmation from at least 10 members that they did not receive this email from Ray.

Thanks for your help...

Regards,
Andrew

there is NO email from Ray this week or last week hitting the server from email address This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.

Hi Brian,

Here is the email header of the email that Ray sent:

From: Ray Jerrems [This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.]
Sent: Sunday, 1 February 2015 4:49 PM
To: This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
Cc: This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
Subject: Meeting Summary

Here are the full details from the email's header:
Delivered-To: This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
Received: by 10.170.116.83 with SMTP id i80csp41237ykb;
Sat, 31 Jan 2015 21:54:22 -0800 (PST)
X-Received: by 10.70.95.35 with SMTP id dh3mr20188779pdb.91.1422770062077;
Sat, 31 Jan 2015 21:54:22 -0800 (PST)
Return-Path: <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
Received: from pt-smtp-02.commander.net.au (pt-smtp-02.commander.net.au. [218.214.227.99])
by mx.google.com with SMTP id py2si5017365pac.177.2015.01.31.21.54.20
for <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>;
Sat, 31 Jan 2015 21:54:21 -0800 (PST)
Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it. designates 218.214.227.99 as permitted sender) client-ip=218.214.227.99;
Authentication-Results: mx.google.com;
spf=pass (google.com: domain of This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it. designates 218.214.227.99 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=rayjerrems@people.net.au
Received: (qmail 15860 invoked from network); 1 Feb 2015 05:54:23 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO userpc) (218.215.21.59)
by pt-smtp-02.commander.net.au with SMTP; 1 Feb 2015 05:54:23 -0000
Reply-To: <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
From: "Ray Jerrems" <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
To: "This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it." <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
Cc: <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
Subject: Meeting Summary
Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2015 16:49:23 +1100
Organization: Ray Jerrems
Message-ID: <000301d03de2$d4bb1cc0$7e315640$@net.au>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0004_01D03E3F.082B94C0"
X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 12.0
Thread-Index: AdA94tSBh5B88Y5IQUOJjoZSQKJQIw==
Content-Language: en-au

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

---

=_NextPart_000_0004_01D03E3F.082B94C0
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit



Hope this helps...?

sorry nothing from his email address has hit the server.

Hi Brian,

Ok thanks for the info on Ray's email. I will have to go around to his house and check all his email settings and perform a few tests. The fact that I receive emails from Ray all the time indicates that he can successfully send emails. The problem is with the members-7892 address.

Have you seen anything like this before with any other users?

Also - any comment on the status of the skpal29(at)hotmail(dot)com email that is sitting at a status of "Queued mail for delivery" ?

Thanks,
Andrew

That just means hotmail accepted but has put in it's processing queue

OK ... thanks... I will monitor and conduct a few targetted tests over the next few days and then get back to you.

Regards,
Andrew

Just a thought - is Ray including a BCC recipient when sending the email? FTH doesn't allow BCC's but Ray should see a warning message if he does attempt to do that.

Hi Pam,

thanks for the info. I will check with Ray and report back.

Regards,
Andrew

Hi all,

Ray confirmed that he does not use BCC addresses when he sends emails. So that rules out that possible issue.

Ray mentioned that he does actually gets his own email that he sends to the members-7892 address (more or less immediately). It just that no-one else in the group gets the email.

I also need to know why my emails sent to members-7892... never reach the skpal29... address (and I mean never!) Everyone else appears to get the email but not skpal29.

There is definitely something strange going on with our group emails and it is clear that different operators are experiencing a variety of different issues.

As a further example - I sent an email to This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it. which is linked to the skpal29 email. He never received it. I have triple checked his email address on the FTH system and it is correct.

Any assistance in resolving these issues would be most appreciated.

Thanks,
Andrew

When posting email addresses here, please be sure to post the complete email addresses as used by the people of interest. If we need to delete or hide them due to privacy concerns, we can do that.

We regularly encounter typos that people miss... that is why I am being a bit pushy about this.

Hi there,

I completely understand your request about supplying the full email addresses.

The full email addresses with the specific problems are:

• This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
• This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.

To summarise:
- When This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it. sends a group email to This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it. then only he receives the email and no-one else in the group does.
- When an email is sent to This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it. or to This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it. then the user This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it. never receives the email (despite being linked to both these group emails.)

Both these scenarios have been tested and proved to be problematic on a number of occasions spread over many weeks.

Tx,
Andrew

Are you sure someone is not trying to send email to some variation of This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it. ? (like missing an s)

If stuff is not showing up in our logs, a common reason is a misspelled email address. To check for bad email addesses, have the sender forward the email in question to you and then you can get the email headers to post here for us to inspect.

If you do not know how to get the email headers, Pam is very well trained in that now.
(Perhaps we should make a troubleshooting doc on that, though.)

If you can get us email headers for the emails that did not complete that would help us troubleshoot your issues. When posting email headers here, be sure to use the <> icon in the compose screen (code icon) since that makes sure that it is shown exactly as you see it. (no funny forum interpretation of characters)

I see the problem
His address book is wrong

To: "This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it." <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>

Ah-ha!!! I have just found the problems with Ray's emails by closely examining the email's header. Thanks for the tip!

The header shows :You will notice that the display name is members-7892... but the underlying email address is actually his own!!! That explains why he is getting his own email but no-one else is.
Woohoo...! One solved ... one to go...!

Regarding the This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it. issue... I asked the user to check his SPAM and JUNK mail folders and he assures me they are empty. I am seeing him this evening and I will ask him to login to his hotmail account for me online and I will help him check the SPAM folders.

I will keep you posted...

Thanks again for your tip on the headers... would never have spotted that otherwise...

Tx,
Andrew

Examining the headers frequently helps solve a lot of email issues. I learned that from Brian. (Tip of the hat to Brian...)

Just a note about email addresses.

If you post them in ordinary text or as quotes, they get obfuscated. That is, in ordinary English, bots can't come along and copy them automatically.

BUT if you post them as code, it's different. The email addresses aren't hidden from bots.

Something to think about, if that's of concern to you.

JaneAtkinson wrote:

Just a note about email addresses.

If you post them in ordinary text or as quotes, they get obfuscated. That is, in ordinary English, bots can't come along and copy them automatically.

BUT if you post them as code, it's different. The email addresses aren't hidden from bots.

Something to think about, if that's of concern to you.

Well, it is kind of a no-win situation, then. If we don't do headers as code, the forum software starts making up emoticons from it. If we do, then we are vulnerable to spam-bots.

Ugggggh!

We will have to ditch the email addresses when we are done with them.

andrewgomes wrote:

Regarding the This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it. issue...

Check your original post above... it says This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it. not This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it. ... Which is it?

Again, typos are more common than people think.

The email in question is This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it. (as mentioned in all the previous comments aganst this topic)

Noted that typos are more common than people think.... being in IT myself I can certainly concur!

I am waiting for the user to double check his SPAM and JUNK folders for me. I will report back once he responds.

Hi all,

Just heard back from Sanat (This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.) and he definitely cannot see the emails in his JUNK folder. He sent me a screen-shot confirming that it was empty.

So we are back to square-one on this issue. I sent another test email to This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it. this morning with the subject of "Test email - 4 Feb 2015 11:46am" (He is linked to this group address.) He confirms that he did not receive the email.

Any thoughts/ideas as to the next steps...?

Thanks,
Andew

From our mail log. It was accepted by Hotmail:

Feb 4 00:46:59 toastmastersclubs sendmail[17890]: t140kwJR017887: to=<This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>,<This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>, ctladdr=<This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.> (501/502), delay=00:00:01, xdelay=00:00:01, mailer=esmtp, pri=151709, relay=mx4.hotmail.com. [65.55.37.104], dsn=2.0.0, stat=Sent ( <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.> Queued mail for delivery)

I just remembered that since this is Hotmail/Outlook, your president may need to do some changes in his mail settings to make This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it. a safe sender. When I got a Hotmail/outlook account for testing purposes, I did not receive FTH email either, initially. I had to fiddle with it to get it to work. MS is very finicky with FTH email.

See here: answers.microsoft.com/en-us/outlook_com/...28-8028-cf239ea256c0

Hi Steve,

Ok - thanks for the valuable feedback. That should help!

So - here's my plan... I am going to temporarily change his email address in FTH to one of my own Hotmail addresses and repeat the tests. I will then make careful note of any settings I need to change to get the email to be successfully received. Once I have this working then I will revert back to his email address and coach him through the required settings.

I will post the results of this back to the forum.

Regards,
Andrew