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TOPIC: AGENDA UPDATE - Pathways Support Implemented

AGENDA UPDATE - Pathways Support Implemented 3 weeks 6 days ago #62901

  • SteveTheTechie
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After a good bit of forward looking (and guessing), consideration of future system needs, and testing (of course), support for the new TM Pathways educational program has been implemented and now released for use.

On the surface, this just looks like a tweak to the project selection drop-down in the agenda. However, I also took the opportunity to modify how the projects are recorded in the FTH database, also, to ease future code maintenance and data integrity. Additionally, changes had to be made to the speech report and the speaker introduction printout to accommodate the changes.

All of the times for the Pathways projects are currently listed as 5-7 minutes. This is an example of an area where we will likely make more updates in the future as we learn more information about the new program. (We are learning, too. ;) )

I will be running some bulk db updates in the next few weeks to ensure that really old speech info stored in the db is still readable with the new scheme.

Note that this did not really touch much about the agenda printout, even though there was a little bit of overlap. I will be doing the update to the agenda printout as a separate effort. I need to break these things up to keep my sanity intact. :lol:

In any case, feel free to use this thread to record any new information about the Pathways program that you feel should be addressed in FTH.
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AGENDA UPDATE - Pathways Support Implemented 3 weeks 6 days ago #62907

  • GeorgeMarshall
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About the Pathways support - looks great.
However, I think it could be simplified - easier for you (perhaps) and users.

There are about 60 projects currently, and most of them are available on every path, either as requireds or electives.

So, rather than list every project repeated under every path, what about just listing the projects in order alphabetically, without reference to the project or level?
Alternatively, you could list them by level, although there are one or two oddball projects that are available in more than one level.

George
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AGENDA UPDATE - Pathways Support Implemented 3 weeks 6 days ago #62909

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GeorgeMarshall wrote:
About the Pathways support - looks great.
However, I think it could be simplified - easier for you (perhaps) and users.

There are about 60 projects currently, and most of them are available on every path, either as requireds or electives.

So, rather than list every project repeated under every path, what about just listing the projects in order alphabetically, without reference to the project or level?
Alternatively, you could list them by level, although there are one or two oddball projects that are available in more than one level.

George

Well, I am betting that users will find it helpful to have all projects grouped by path, regardless of repeats, so that they do not need to remember which projects are available for each path. Also, I think we should have a way to reference the path from what is actually stored in the db. If someone does an Icebreaker for two different paths, wouldn't we need a way to indicate it was done twice, once for each path?

The implemented approach allows for the system to support the 2 year transition, which is important. As there is an Icebreaker (for example) in the current program as well as one in Pathways, I felt strongly that I was going to need to be able to distinguish between them, anyway. I am open to other implementation approaches, but I do want to be able to reference the manual or path and I do want to be able to support the 2 year transition period.

What actually gets stored are short codes:

PWDL-L1-IB (Pathways Dynamic Leadership Level 1 Icebreaker)
PWEC-L1-IB (Pathways Effective Coaching Level 1 Icebreaker)

The codes are "parse-able"... So if I want to just convert to plain Icebreaker, that is possible.
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AGENDA UPDATE - Pathways Support Implemented 3 weeks 6 days ago #62910

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My concern is that it is a very long list. While all projects are not in all paths, most of the are, so that's in the ballpark of 10 paths times 30? 40? projects, so the list is 300 to 400 items long. That's a very long dropdown!
---
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AGENDA UPDATE - Pathways Support Implemented 3 weeks 6 days ago #62911

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GeorgeMarshall wrote:
My concern is that it is a very long list. While all projects are not in all paths, most of the are, so that's in the ballpark of 10 paths times 30? 40? projects, so the list is 300 to 400 items long. That's a very long dropdown!

Understood... However, when the current education drops off in a few years, it will be shorter.

I want to "let it ride" for now, and come back to it later.
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AGENDA UPDATE - Pathways Support Implemented 3 weeks 5 days ago #62918

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GeorgeMarshall wrote:
My concern is that it is a very long list. While all projects are not in all paths, most of the are, so that's in the ballpark of 10 paths times 30? 40? projects, so the list is 300 to 400 items long. That's a very long dropdown!

Another possibility that we could explore later (I just thought of this) is to make the Manual / Path also a drop down that serves as a filter for what shows in the Project / Speech drop-down. In other words, you would only see the available selections in the Project / Speech drop-down that are relevant to the Manual / Path selected in the first drop-down. It is a bit more clicks (and more complex logic), but it maybe could be less confusing for users. (All I care about is what is in the Project / Speech drop-down, so this would be a strictly JavaScript exercise.)

There is also a variation of the pop-up checklists that can be used for single-selects and can include a search box.

In any case, I am open to exploring other approaches later. I have already put a bit of time into redoing the data structure and storage, so I need to move onto other things currently.
Steve James, ACG, ALB
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AGENDA UPDATE - Pathways Support Implemented 3 weeks 3 days ago #62961

  • malikmlwilliams
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Steve, thank you for the updates!

I specifically love two things about it:
  1. The indentations make it easier to scroll to the manual first, then find the project.
  2. Having the Pathways projects at the end means not having to scroll through everything if we're not yet using Pathways.
I think they look great and make finding the exact project much faster and easier.
Malik M.L. Williams
Las Vegas Early Risers Toastmasters
Club Number: 4023, District 33, Area H03
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AGENDA UPDATE - Pathways Support Implemented 2 weeks 5 days ago #63007

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re: not everything is 5-7 Minutes in Pathways

File Attachment:

File Name: SpeechTimes.pdf
File Size:186 KB

I found this Pathways speech length note on LinkedIn Toastmasters Discussion group. Rather than reposting the information which might change, here's the link to the poster's website. I have attached a PDF of an Excel file that I created with the same info.
umeryouknow.com/?p=884
#9527
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AGENDA UPDATE - Pathways Support Implemented 2 weeks 5 days ago #63012

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dashehorn44 wrote:
re: not everything is 5-7 Minutes in Pathways

File Attachment:

File Name: SpeechTimes.pdf
File Size:186 KB

I found this Pathways speech length note on LinkedIn Toastmasters Discussion group. Rather than reposting the information which might change, here's the link to the poster's website. I have attached a PDF of an Excel file that I created with the same info.
umeryouknow.com/?p=884

Thanks! Any chance you could create the PDF in landscape mode? It is kind of chopped off in portrait... hard to understand that way.

GeorgeMarshall, how does this look to you?
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AGENDA UPDATE - Pathways Support Implemented 2 weeks 4 days ago #63029

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It's mostly OK, with the exception that the last project, Distinguished Toastmaster is incomplete - it does not list the time for the second speech.

I think if that top box were adjusted in Excel to be two lines, it would work fine in portrait.
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AGENDA UPDATE - Pathways Support Implemented 2 weeks 3 days ago #63045

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In Excel, if the top row were set to Wrap Text, it will make it take up as many rows as necessary. Right-click the cell, Format Cell, Alignment, Wrap Text.
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AGENDA UPDATE - Pathways Support Implemented 2 weeks 3 days ago #63046

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I am just trying to make out the times and it is a bit confusing the way it currently is.
Steve James, ACG, ALB
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AGENDA UPDATE - Pathways Support Implemented 2 weeks 1 day ago #63079

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Steve, thanks for putting this on the table; I understand George's concerns about list length, but I believe this has to cater for the situation where a member is doing different paths in different clubs - very possible as my impression is that Pathways is more compartmentalized than the current programme.
When I hear arguments about exceptions and list lengths in IT I start thinking in terms of "many to many" relationships. What I'm hearing is a need to resolve the idea that "one member is doing many paths in many clubs". My understanding is that a given path will tie into only one club; for example, you can't credit level 1 in a path to one club and level 2 in the same path to another. If that is correct, maybe you need to only see the projects for the path you are working on with that club - even if you do a project from that path at another club, or outside of Toastmasters for that matter.
Seems to me that relating a given path to a given member at a given club might shorten the list, if I've got the understanding right. I hope so, we haven't been rolled out yet but as a Guide I have to try and sell the practicalities of this stuff to members of Advanced clubs right now. Some of the more established members are already questioning what Pathways holds for the older member, and I want to try and make sure we keep that level of experience if we can.
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AGENDA UPDATE - Pathways Support Implemented 2 weeks 1 day ago #63080

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Mike, there isn't any connection at all between paths and clubs - that misimpression stems from a casual comment made in one of the chief ambassador webinars, that represented staff's *assumptions* about how paths might be used.

For example, as a member of the first pilot district, D57, I am working one path across two clubs, and have Pathways awards in both.
Yes you *CAN* credit Level 1 in one club and Level 2 (etc) in another club --- in the SAME path.

I suggest you go back to your chief ambassador and demand accurate information :-)
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AGENDA UPDATE - Pathways Support Implemented 2 weeks 23 hours ago #63081

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Thanks George, good to know - and good to know there is finally some useful public information about the detail on the TI website. If you're nowhere near rollout it is hard to get anything usable - reminds me of the brand refresh of 2011. It would be really useful if the CA had a regular site update they could distribute (or maybe our May convention got in the way.
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AGENDA UPDATE - Pathways Support Implemented 1 week 1 day ago #63174

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Thank you Steve. It's called future planning
Les Saville DTM
Immediate Past Macquarie Division Director 2015-2016
"President Distinguished Division 2015-2016"
Vice President Membership 2016-2017
Kings Langley Toastmasters Club 4875
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Area 4 | Western Division | District 90 | Region 12
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